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YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal

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1YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:49 pm

windreader1



The question of the day is YEA or NAY. Will the Security Council remove Iraq from Chapter VII? Right now the only scheduled meeting regarding Iraq on the UN Security Council agenda is June 18th. It is listed as a public debate on UNAMI (United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq). There have been a couple of articles that have referenced two meetings. The second meeting, which may exist, is not currently on the official agenda.

I found an old article (Washington Post Staff Writers Tuesday, November 27, 2007) that I thought had merit regarding the potential outcome of this meeting. In 2007 a pact between the U.S. and Iraq was signed stating that the current U.N. mandate would be extended by one year to the end of 2008. At that time Chapter VII would be totally eliminated and bi-lateral agreements would be put in place for any outstanding issues. A quote from the article indicates the feelings of Iraq at that time “Many Iraqi leaders still bristle that they fall under what is known as a Chapter 7 designation as a threat to international peace and security. Yesterday's statement said that emerging from under the U.N. mandate would enhance "the full sovereignty of Iraq" and "its control over its forces and the administration of its affairs." What actually transpired was that only half of this pact was upheld. The control over Iraq’s forces was ended in 2008 but the administration of Iraq’s affairs is still in effect.

The ending of Chapter VII was once again stipulated in the Sofa/SFA agreement that was signed in December, 2008. To quote “ The U.S. ambassador to Iraq Christopher Hill said last week that "the consequences of Iraq out of Chapter VII is an objective shared by the United States with Iraq," adding "in fact, the security agreement requires us to help Iraq in process.” Twice Iraq and the US have reached an agreement to end Chapter VII.

Turkey is now in a position to assist Iraq. The Turkey representative is the current President of the Security Council. Each month the Presidency rotates. If Turkey is going to be in a position to help Iraq it must be done in June.
“Iraq eyes Turkey help over Chapter VII
Sat, 23 May 2009
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=95687&sectionid=351020201

The Iraqi FM has called on his Turkish counterpart to remove Iraq from Chapter VII of the UN charter when Turkey assumes the presidency of the UNSC
.

Iraq has been aggressively pursuing contacts with all the voting representatives to request removal of Chapter VII and has been pushing for the bilateral agreement issue. Most if not all of the voting countries have pending contracts with Iraq. (maybe a little of you scratch my back and I will scratch yours in return going on behind the scenes).

Kuwait may have over exaggerated their claims on what is still owed to them. Kuwait is claiming 25.5 billion to Kuwait and 16 billion to the Kuwait emirate. The United Nations Compensation Fund was set up to oversee the claims and subsequent payments. At this time, their publications only show 33+ billion still owed and that is to more entities than just Kuwait.

Twice the UN has lowered the percent that Iraq had to pay to the compensation fund. Kuwait had no voice or control over the reduction. It was first reduced from 30% to 25% and then to 5%.

Kuwait has been very vocal over keeping Iraq under Chapter VII until all the compensation and other issues affecting Kuwait have been resolved. Iraq retaliated by threatening to require trillions of dollars in damage from Kuwait for allowing coalition forces to use their country.

Based on all the articles and research the UN is moving to eliminate Chapter VII. All of the existing restrictions, committees and programs are due to expire this year. Iraq has done everything that the UN has asked. It may not have been as fast or as accurate as required, but Iraq has progressed in making improvements. I would also think that Kuwait has not helped their position in spite of all the trips to meet with the representatives of the voting countries in order to pitch their side of the issue. At some point in time, someone has to say, enough is enough. This has been going on for almost 20 years and it is time to bring it to an end. The UN also has other critical issues on their plate right now that are definitely more important.

Stay tuned for next segment of “AS IRAQ TURNS” the continuing saga of when will the RV arrive!!!!!!!!!!!!

2YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:33 pm

cokeman



Sounds like you are not too positive on a RV for this month wind. Wouldn't surprise me at all that it won't happen.......

3YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:38 pm

windreader1



cokeman wrote:Sounds like you are not too positive on a RV for this month wind. Wouldn't surprise me at all that it won't happen.......

I try to steer clear of making predictions as I
really do not know.

4YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:49 pm

Guest


Guest

Thanks windreader1 for posting this; made me think, just maybe all is falling into place. Enjoyed reading.

5YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Great article! Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:44 pm

Guest


Guest

This was very helpful. Great article...
I had read elsewhere that teh only sanctions left for Irak that were in contention before Kuwait started calling for irak to pay up all the monies before the lifting of the sanctions was for the benefit of irak. Under the continued umbrella of Art 7, it also froze their assets when other were laying claim to them...

6YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:37 pm

OWL



Nice read wind...

7YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:49 pm

Guest


Guest

I hate to be a killjoy or a party-poop,....but a serious investor has to look at all sides of the question...

If removal of UN ArtVII is so bloody important to an RV,...then how is it that the CBI raised the dinar's
value from roughtly 4000:1 (2004) to 2000:1 (by 2006)?....Where it sat for almost a year, then it made
it's dramatic march from 2000:1 to today's 1170:1.

Why did that revaluation of the dinar not require removal of UN ArtVII ?.....Enquiring minds want to know...

8YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:02 pm

w8tin



Ok sampson [you are the sampson from chronos? right? LOL]...anyway...i have no real knowledge of this at all...but i would like to think that the CBI was able to do that because it it is/was BEFORE the IQD could be exchanged anywhere other than iraq..did that make any sense? Razz

9YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:33 am

Guest


Guest

Sampson wrote:I hate to be a killjoy or a party-poop,....but a serious investor has to look at all sides of the question...

If removal of UN ArtVII is so bloody important to an RV,...then how is it that the CBI raised the dinar's
value from roughtly 4000:1 (2004) to 2000:1 (by 2006)?....Where it sat for almost a year, then it made
it's dramatic march from 2000:1 to today's 1170:1.

Why did that revaluation of the dinar not require removal of UN ArtVII ?.....Enquiring minds want to know...

Iraq has been held under a program rate by the IMF, the CBI has proved that it can regulate inflation control by raising the value slowly and through the use of auctions. Lifting of Article 7 and giving the GOI economic responsibly...that would lead into Article 8 which many feel will turn up our RV.....

10YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:14 am

retired2934

retired2934

That was very important for Iraq to do thump.....control the rate of inflation.

Remember awhile ago someone(dont knowwho) said that the RV will happen when Iraq gets the inflation rate down to about 5%. well as we have seen in an article That CK brought to nenos..it is less Then 0%. so why the hold up???? art 7. jmo

11YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:12 pm

windreader1



Sampson wrote:I hate to be a killjoy or a party-poop,....but a serious investor has to look at all sides of the question...

If removal of UN ArtVII is so bloody important to an RV,...then how is it that the CBI raised the dinar's
value from roughtly 4000:1 (2004) to 2000:1 (by 2006)?....Where it sat for almost a year, then it made
it's dramatic march from 2000:1 to today's 1170:1.

Why did that revaluation of the dinar not require removal of UN ArtVII ?.....Enquiring minds want to know...



Sampson, you raise some good points. The answer is in the history of the new dinar. The UN Sanctions that were placed in effect in 1990 did not include control of Iraq’s financial banking system which was by today’s standards almost non-existent. One of the effects, though, of the sanctions was a destabilization of the dinar. This resulted in the 4000-2000 dinar fluctuation that you referred to. This occurred in 2002 and 2003. The following is a quote from an article on the history of the dinar.


“The Iraqi dinar was worth $US3.20 before the United Nations embargo that followed Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait. By August 2002 it was trading at just below 2000 to the US dollar, and by mid-April 2003 it had slipped to anywhere between 3500 and 4000 against the dollar.”

When the coalition forces assumed control of the Iraq government this also included the financial infra-structure and banking industry of Iraq. Over the next year the new dinar was designed, printed and distributed in an exchange program for the old dinar. At the same time, the financial infrastructure was being restructured under the supervision of the IMF and World Bank. The value of the dinar was placed under a controlled program rate by the IMF to control inflation. It was also pulled from the international currency market. The only reason that US citizens were allowed to invest in the dinar was due to the executive order signed by President Bush. This is still the status of the dinar today.

The ending of Chapter VII will not automatically trigger the RV. What it will do, though, is turn over full economic control to Iraq. Iraq will be restored to full international status and the currency will again be an international currency.

12YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:55 pm

Guest


Guest

lol...yes, I do know all those details, Windreader...I am a dinar expert, if I do say so myself....I've been in this for 4-some-odd years...

But the question hasn't been answered....it was 4000:1 territory right after the exchange for IQD...
Then, from Apr 04 say...to Nov 06,....if was allowed to float up to 2000:1. Then up to 1170:1...
it was always under IMF supervsion,btw..

It was originally supposed to RV in Aug 06,...and had it done so,...well...have to save that for another day...

my point is that all this movement, under IMF supervision mind you,...all happened with UN ArtVII still in place...

I guess my larger point is this....there's been many so-called "trigger events" in the past that were supposed
to be the last card to fall,...but they all came and went and apparently were never tied to an currency revaluation.
I suspect, but hope I'm wrong of course, that UN ArtVII will be just another ho-hum event that will pass w/o an RV.

-Sampson

13YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:55 pm

OWL



Sampson wrote:lol...yes, I do know all those details, Windreader...I am a dinar expert, if I do say so myself....I've been in this for 4-some-odd years...

But the question hasn't been answered....it was 4000:1 territory right after the exchange for IQD...
Then, from Apr 04 say...to Nov 06,....if was allowed to float up to 2000:1. Then up to 1170:1...
it was always under IMF supervsion,btw..

It was originally supposed to RV in Aug 06,...and had it done so,...well...have to save that for another day...

my point is that all this movement, under IMF supervision mind you,...all happened with UN ArtVII still in place...

I guess my larger point is this....there's been many so-called "trigger events" in the past that were supposed
to be the last card to fall,...but they all came and went and apparently were never tied to an currency revaluation.
I suspect, but hope I'm wrong of course, that UN ArtVII will be just another ho-hum event that will pass w/o an RV.

-Sampson
Now Sampson...ya could'a went all day (year) and not said that...wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit. I sure hope yer wrong bud.

14YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:00 pm

windreader1



Sampson wrote:lol...yes, I do know all those details, Windreader...I am a dinar expert, if I do say so myself....I've been in this for 4-some-odd years...

But the question hasn't been answered....it was 4000:1 territory right after the exchange for IQD...
Then, from Apr 04 say...to Nov 06,....if was allowed to float up to 2000:1. Then up to 1170:1...
it was always under IMF supervsion,btw..

It was originally supposed to RV in Aug 06,...and had it done so,...well...have to save that for another day...

my point is that all this movement, under IMF supervision mind you,...all happened with UN ArtVII still in place...

I guess my larger point is this....there's been many so-called "trigger events" in the past that were supposed
to be the last card to fall,...but they all came and went and apparently were never tied to an currency revaluation.
I suspect, but hope I'm wrong of course, that UN ArtVII will be just another ho-hum event that will pass w/o an RV.

-Sampson

Nothing that I have found supports the fluctuation and associated time frames that you are referring to. I still make the distinction that the IMF did not assume control of the currency value until the coalition authority was in place. Can the IMF force an RV, yes I believe they can. Will they, that is another topic for discussion.

As far as the trigger events, I cannot disagree that there have been plenty. In retrospect, though, there were many unidentified pieces of the puzzle, not known at the time, that were affecting the financial stability of Iraq.

It may be that removal of Chapter VII will fall into the same category. There may still be issues pending that have not been identified. Removal does, however, have several significant distinctions.

With the removal of Chapter VII, Iraq will no longer be under economic control. The last paragraph of Resolution 1859 deals with the review of all the old resolutions in order to restore Iraq to full international status that was held prior to 1990. This will have a significant effect on the status of Iraq’s currency.

The removal of Chapter VII also means that billions of dollars that are currently being held under UN supervision will be released back to Iraq’s control. Cannot help but believe that could be significant to an RV.

The removal of Chapter VII would also eliminate the 5% of all revenues that Iraq is currently forced to pay to a compensation fund. More money in Iraq’s pockets would be good.

The bottom line for me is that the removal of Chapter VII puts us one step closer. I said in another discussion, is it possible that Iraq has bowed up and said “No RV, until we get what we want” which is the removal of Chapter VII. Only time will tell.

15YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:56 pm

Guest


Guest

WOW this has to be one of the best debate threads I've ever read on this dinar ride. Got pros and cons.

16YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Empty Re: YEA or NAY for Chapter 7 removal Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:08 pm

windreader1



MrsCK wrote:WOW this has to be one of the best debate threads I've ever read on this dinar ride. Got pros and cons.

Sampson was coming back with some good comments

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